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invincible1 108 ( +1 | -1 )
Suggestion against 1.d4 I need something new perhaps or modification to the way I play against 1.d4. Long long back I used to play 1....d5, but that was only for a short while. Since then I have always played the KID with 1....Nf6, all the main lines. Of late I am finding trouble, and slowly, I think even at the world level, KID is becoming less popular as white seems to have a definite advantage with mostly 9.b4 or 9.Nd2. Even others give white the advantage.

I want to shift to something with very little opening theory or perhaps something easy to learn up and gives fighting double-edged positions or is out of the book early! Now, I was considering 1....Nc6 as I play it against 1.e4. But that doesnt seem to be to my taste due to 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4 e6, and I dont like playing these kind ofpositions.

So I am seriously considering Dutch defence 1....f5. ButI have never played this and so maybe there is lots to learn here also. What do you all feel? Or is there an alternative choice you have in mind?

Any feedback will really be appreciated! Thanks in anticipation.

Regards
invincible1
furryfunbundle 141 ( +1 | -1 )
I sympathise I also have wandered around d4 responses for most of my chess playing life (a lot of years)!!

Bumbled around in the std Dutch from time to time and (as per your KI observations) more recently adopted the Dutch Leningrad (which is not entirely separate from some of the KI ideas for black (and in theory) can be attained more easily (although I have yet to prove this over the board!) on the basis the KN does not shuffle all over the place to get the kingside pawns rolling.

In generally, I find these positions hard to create ideas and so plod through a series of predictable moves. Nevertheless, I believe the Leningrad to be a good option to explore.

I also have toyed with Chigorin's d5/Nc6 ideas, they are good fun.

I try not to play Nf6 against d4 because too many whites opt for Bg5 (which may or may not be a problem) but I prefer not to play down my opponent’s pet line if I can instead pull the game into a choice of my own.

Last few games I have experimented with the Tarrasch defense and although Black dooes not do terrifically wel if you look at game statsl, the positions are rich for a fun filled middle game tussle.

I am starting to turn my thoughts towards a Benoni or two and I do recall trying the Volga out many years ago. Another choice I could well revisit to see what is ne.

So in summary, not much to add - but rather share in sympathy with your plight.

KaierPaul - where are you?????

We need a "d4" Masterclass here please:-)
More: Chess
coyotefan 6 ( +1 | -1 )
f5 Dutch Defense. Simple to play. Not as many variations as Nf6.
baseline 101 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 I found myself in much the same position a few months ago. KID had been my weapon against 1.d4 for 30 years! I finally came accross a book titled "An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black" by Jouni Yrjola and Jussi Tella it proposes a universial defense against anything white plays starting with 1...d6 at fir4st I thought it was just plain silly, but since I already had the Pirc as part of my repertoire I decided to study some of the systems recommended and found that I enjoyed playing them and they offered good winning chances. Some notable players who often use this system the late Tony Miles, Jonathan Speelman, Colin McNab, Julian Hodgson, Jorg Hickl, Zurab Azmaiparashvili, Evgeny Agrest and Viktor Komiakov. Many of the lines are related to the Old Indian, KID, modern,Pirc, and Dutch I have had execellent resuts using this repertoire and more important it is fun. I don,t know if it is for you or not but you might want to have a look at it.
invincible1 54 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks a lot all! I am most probably going to try the Dutch defence in a few games but donot know the best variations for black... so I am still looking for something that gets out of the book sooner.
Unfortunately I am not a Pirc player and therefore will not play 1....d6. I actually considered and thought about this, but have decided against it as that could quite easily land me back into KID and that apart, I wouldnt like it at all if my opponant played 2.e4!
Thanks for the replies once again and waiting for more replies!
Regards
invincible1
baseline 26 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 I actually look foward to someone playing 2.e4 against 1...d6 dedicated 1.d4 players play 1.e4 openings rather timidly! But, the Pirc isn't for everyone. Hopefully a Dutch expert will come forth with some advise. I'd be interested to hear it as well.
More: Chess
keiserpaul 201 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 You don’t like the position in the Litauer defense after 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4 e6, but how many times will you get that on the board ? A few years ago, I frequently played Nc6 after 1.d4 , but it is very rarely that someone pushed the d-pawn further at the second move. People thinks that you are provoking that move and that’s just why they don’t like to play it. Another position that looks very logical but is in practical play difficult to reach is the symmetrical position 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 e5. (I never reached the nice gambits in that line such as 4.dxe5 d4 5.Nd5 f5 !? 6.exf6 Nxf6 7.Bg5 Be6 8.Bc4 Nxd5! 9.Bxd8 Bb4!).
But the question was what to play after 1.d4. The Dutch is a good alternative, but you have to be prepared for the very dangerous Staunton Gambit 1.d4 f5 2.e4. That’s why I propose not to play f5 on the first move, but only on the second. You are afraid because not aware of the best variations ? Then I propose to play the Stonewall Dutch instead of the Leningrad, I can be wrong but I do not know any dangerous lines black has to be prepared for in the Stonewall. And what’s more, the Stonewall can be played with White too, the basic strategies being the same.
More tactical is the Tarrasch as already suggested by furryfunbundle. In 50% of the games the symmetrical position will be reached, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.e3 Nf6 5.Nf3 Nc6. The Tarrasch is not well known by a lot of people and they seemed to be afraid of tricks when exchanging the pawns in an early stage. However if you want to play the Tarrasch, you must be an aggresive player, by just defending you will lose the isolated pawn. My favourite line is the Scharra-Hennig gambit, which is considered unsound, but you don’t have to follow the main lines, the Scharra is full of tactical opportunities.
The St. George is another alternative 1.d4 b5 2.e4 a6. This is a completely sound defense, but very difficult to play. Basman obtains very good results with this, but I don’t. I get a headache of the long and complicated middlegame play that follows.
Good if you are an aggresive player is the Vulture family : 1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 3.c4 Ne4 (the Vulture), or 3. Nc3 Qa5 (the Woozle) or 3.Nf3 c4 (the Hawk). I like that, it’s extremely sharp play ! Good to fans of blood and horror !

More: Chess
sodiumattack 57 ( +1 | -1 )
just some ideas You can try the English defense: 1. d4 e6 (if you are not feared to play a French, otherwise first b6, then e6), 2. c4 b6 3. e4 Bb7 4. Qc2 (4. Nc3 Bb4! or 4. Bd3) 4. ... Qh4.
Or the Modern defense: 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 (3. ... c5 4. d5 Bxc3+ 5. bxc3 f5, the Beefeater, Black will continue with Qa5) 4. e4 Nc6 (attacking the D pawn, Nf6 lead to the KID) 5. Be3 e5 6. d5 Nd4. Or 5. d5 Nd4 6. Be3 c5 7. Nge2 Qb6 8. Nxd4 cxd4 9. Na4 and deserves attention the queen sac 9. ... dxe3!? 10. Nxb6 exf2+ 11. Kxf2 axb6 and white has to play carefully.
The Polish defense: 1. d4 b5 2. e4 Bb7 (in the St. George black defends the B pawn, here he attack white's e pawn.) If 3. f3 then 3. ... a6 or 3. ... b4!?
The Bogoljubov defense (1. d4 Nc6), you have to be prepared to play the Chigorin.
But perhaps no one of these system are solid as the Dutch defense...
invincible1 148 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks a lot!! Thanks a lot each of you for providing so much analysis and alternatives etc.. Thank you indeed!
First, no I am not prepared to play the french which is why I am not very interested in 1....e6. Nor do I like the ....b6 kind as in this also as you have said, I might have to play ....Bb4 etc. Well, ....b5 etc also seem to rash, guess it is in my mind but thats not my kind :-)
Right now I am debating between 1...Nc6 and 1....f5. First of all, for 1....Nc6 what exactly is Chigorin that I need to be prepared against? Guess it is ....d5 with .....Nc6 which I am okay with playing. And to aswer keiserpaul, for 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 d5 (I am happy because I am in Nimzowich I am learning!) 3.Nc3 yes, 3....e5 is interesting! Also interesting and less risky is 3....dxe4. And also 3....Nf6 4.e5 Nd7! And white also can sac with 5.e6?!
If I will not have to play too often against 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5, then aybe I wil try this. I think I will try this and the Dutch for now....
What is Stonewall Dutch and what is Leningrad Dutch? Unfortunately I donot have any opening book here so a shift of opening is going to be monitored only by an online database which is very very dicey!
I would like to know which Dutch will have least knowledge requirement....
And no, I dont want to play Tarrasch. Actually, dont want to play 1....d5 as then all the players who play c3 or e4, f4 etc. will be happy!
So presently seems like it will be Dutch and 1....Nc6 maybe. Butstill need to know which Dutch etc.
Would be glad to see more feedback. And thanks a lot each of you!! Thank you furryfunbundle, baseline, coyotefan, keiserpaul and sodiumattack!

Regards
invincible1
bigkev 13 ( +1 | -1 )
Some more ideas Other ideas are the Benoni and its variations and some gambit such as the Benko Gambit could provide some interest for you.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5
superblunder 19 ( +1 | -1 )
Why not play the nimzo-indian and queens indian? I know they are 'solid' openings, but they are not really all that boring, and provide black with a good position from the opneing, just what playing the opening is for.
hardcorepawn 6 ( +1 | -1 )
I always play the slav

1. d4 d5
2. c4 c6

It works well for me, some of the time.
invincible1 20 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks! Thank you everyone for your replies! I have decided tht I wil try out the Dutch defence! Just now need to know what is Dutch Leningrad and what is Dutch Stonewall, and then get some practice....
furryfunbundle 163 ( +1 | -1 )
Leningrad Dutch Fist thing to say is it is a "risky" opening in so much as Black is putting himself out on a limb somewhat. There are "weak" squares aplenty but also good and active chances aplenty for Black.

Second thing is that its closer in spirit to the KIndian than perhaps a true Dutch.

In the Leningrad, black hopes to get the "best" of the Kings Indian pawn structure but more quickly!

In the KI, Black develops normally and rhen shuffles the Knight some wher (e8/d7) to get f5 in. In the Leningrad f5 follows first and then Nf6.

If allowed to consolidate, Black is up and running. White therefore cannot afford to mess around too much.

Typical main line is something like:-
1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3 (after which Black can try c6 or Qe8 as main next moves)

Blacks opening here does leave weakened squares which a strong white positional player can look to exploit (e6, the e file in general) but, surely no worse than can happen in the KI?

What Black does gains though is good dynamic opportunity to create imbalance and with it, an active game.

As mentioned by keiserpaul, preparation against the Staunton Gambit is recommended. He also makes valid points about the ease of adopting the stonewall Dutch. All good advice.

But, if you do have a Kings Indian pedigree behind you, then the Leningrad may well grow on you easily.

Baseline offers d6 first move and keiserpaul also suggest avoiding f5 first move. However, if you do not relish the prospects of d4 d6 and then e4 learning the Staunton is no big I think.

Good luck.

For myself, I will venture out with a Benoni or two perhaps or try hardcorepawn idea of a Slav:-)
keiserpaul 115 ( +1 | -1 )
Stonewall Dutch Good explanation of furryfunbundle about the Leningrad Dutch. I will try to tell something similar about the Stonewall. A line could be 1.d4 f5 2.c4 e6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 d5 5.Nf3 c6 6.0-0 Bd6. These six moves of black can be played against almost any white set-up. The pawn structure of the Stonewall is rather static, but the piece play is very dynamic. Black can play on either wing, (I prefer the king side), confident that the center cannot fall into White’s hands. However, White can strive for the e2-e4 break which, if achieved, can prove disastrous for Black, but this move needs preparation by the weakening move f2-f3. That move opens up the a7-g1 diagonal and makes the e3-square vulnerable. Black’s problem in the Stonewall is the development of the light-squared bishop. Personally I prefer the old manoeuvre Bc8-d7-e8-h5. Too many moves ? Maybe, but practical play has proved white cannot take any profit of this. More modern is a plan with b7-b6, followed by Bc8-b7 and then c6-c5 sometimes in combination with e6-e5.
Another defence, with lively piece play, not popular and almost forgotten is Keres defence : 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Bf5. Main lines are : 3.Qb3 e5! 4.Qxb7 Nd7 ; 3.cxd5 Bxb1 4.Rxb1 Qxd5 ; 3.Nc3 e6 ; 3.Nf3 e6.

invincible1 35 ( +1 | -1 )
furryfunbundle and keiserpaul Thanks a lot!!! Both of your posts are much more than sufficient to give me a fair idea of what the plans and positions could be! At first somehow I feel I will prefer Leningrad Dutch by looking at the moves. Maybe this is because I have been a KID player. But I may give both a shot. Thank you so much!
macheide 156 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 Dear friend,

I had played, in the past, almost all solid defenses against 1.d4. But let me talk about my agressive choices:

In the last 2 years I am decanting for the Grünfeld Defense. It produces unbalanced games and pawn structures, and, very often, to an unusual percentage of rook endgames that I like a lot.

The Dutch Defense is an underestimated defense. It's solid, agressive and produces, also, an asymetrical pawn structure. This defense isn't for every player. It's very complicated and demands a lot of study (mhh,..., well, what defense doesn't?). By the way, Alekhine used to say that he used the Dutch Defense when he needed to win at all cost.

Another alternative, usualy more violent, is the Hromadka-Benoni Defense, also known as Modern Benoni. When I played the Nimzo-Bogo-Queen Indian Complex I used to play: 1.d4 Nf6, 2.c4 e6 and from this point all depended from my opponent's next move, if he played 3.Nc3, I used the Nimzo-Indian; when he played 3.Nf3, and I was looking for a more complex game, I used to play 3....c5 entering in a Benoni. The reason to wait what move my opponent were to play (3.Nc3 or 3.Nf3) is this: after 3.Nc3 c5, 4.d5 e6, 5. e4 exd5, 6. cxd5 d6, 7.f4 is the most testing variation for black. In the 3.Nf3 alternative the game is less demanding for black because the white f pawn is bolcked by the knight.

The Semi-Slav Defense is also a good alternative, full of hyper-complex, unbalanced variations. But the problem is that you can't force your opponent to enter in it.

Hopefuly this little resume from my own experiences be helpful to you.

Regards,

macheide
macheide 156 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 Dear friend,

I had played, in the past, almost all solid defenses against 1.d4. But let me talk about my agressive choices:

In the last 2 years I am decanting for the Grünfeld Defense. It produces unbalanced games and pawn structures, and, very often, to an unusual percentage of rook endgames that I like a lot.

The Dutch Defense is an underestimated defense. It's solid, agressive and produces, also, an asymetrical pawn structure. This defense isn't for every player. It's very complicated and demands a lot of study (mhh,..., well, what defense doesn't?). By the way, Alekhine used to say that he used the Dutch Defense when he needed to win at all cost.

Another alternative, usualy more violent, is the Hromadka-Benoni Defense, also known as Modern Benoni. When I played the Nimzo-Bogo-Queen Indian Complex I used to play: 1.d4 Nf6, 2.c4 e6 and from this point all depended from my opponent's next move, if he played 3.Nc3, I used the Nimzo-Indian; when he played 3.Nf3, and I was looking for a more complex game, I used to play 3....c5 entering in a Benoni. The reason to wait what move my opponent were to play (3.Nc3 or 3.Nf3) is this: after 3.Nc3 c5, 4.d5 e6, 5. e4 exd5, 6. cxd5 d6, 7.f4 is the most testing variation for black. In the 3.Nf3 alternative the game is less demanding for black because the white f pawn is bolcked by the knight.

The Semi-Slav Defense is also a good alternative, full of hyper-complex, unbalanced variations. But the problem is that you can't force your opponent to enter in it.

Hopefuly this little resume from my own experiences be helpful to you.

Regards,

macheide
macheide 156 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 Dear friend,

I had played, in the past, almost all solid defenses against 1.d4. But let me talk about my agressive choices:

In the last 2 years I am decanting for the Grünfeld Defense. It produces unbalanced games and pawn structures, and, very often, to an unusual percentage of rook endgames that I like a lot.

The Dutch Defense is an underestimated defense. It's solid, agressive and produces, also, an asymetrical pawn structure. This defense isn't for every player. It's very complicated and demands a lot of study (mhh,..., well, what defense doesn't?). By the way, Alekhine used to say that he used the Dutch Defense when he needed to win at all cost.

Another alternative, usualy more violent, is the Hromadka-Benoni Defense, also known as Modern Benoni. When I played the Nimzo-Bogo-Queen Indian Complex I used to play: 1.d4 Nf6, 2.c4 e6 and from this point all depended from my opponent's next move, if he played 3.Nc3, I used the Nimzo-Indian; when he played 3.Nf3, and I was looking for a more complex game, I used to play 3....c5 entering in a Benoni. The reason to wait what move my opponent were to play (3.Nc3 or 3.Nf3) is this: after 3.Nc3 c5, 4.d5 e6, 5. e4 exd5, 6. cxd5 d6, 7.f4 is the most testing variation for black. In the 3.Nf3 alternative the game is less demanding for black because the white f pawn is bolcked by the knight.

The Semi-Slav Defense is also a good alternative, full of hyper-complex, unbalanced variations. But the problem is that you can't force your opponent to enter in it.

Hopefuly this little resume from my own experiences be helpful to you.

Regards,

macheide
macheide 5 ( +1 | -1 )
Excuse the multiple message. My connection if failing. :)

macheide
invincible1 46 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks Thanks a lot! I think I am going to try out the Dutch defense.

macheide, just read the comment on your profile! Interesting and very true! But ironically, when an interviewer asked Capablanca "Sir, I have heard that you can see 8-10 moves ahead in most positions, is it true?"
Humble came the reply from the master "No. Most often I actually see just one move ahead. The right one!".
macheide 63 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 Dear friend,

The story is true. The same thing answered Rčti but,..., whitout the "The right one". :)

Capablanca was very proud.

Another comment of Capablanca that is very descriptive of his calculating genius is the next one he made after a game against Bernstein, St. Petersburg, 1914. About the 21th move of this famous game he said (in the post mortem, of course): "The best move made in this game. To do it, I had to analyse in detail several variations that contained almost hundred moves,..., In case that the combination were not viable, I counted with the simple 21.Nxe5..."

Regards,

macheide
joszef_palkovi 142 ( +1 | -1 )
Stick to your guns! so you are having trouble with the KIA nowadays?? Well let me tell you something: this opening is far from conclusive and there is still a lot to be discovered which is some work but this can be fun. for example the b4 variation you mentioned: A lot of people played a5 first but this may give white an edge. Nh5 is more logical then there are c5 and Re1 of which Re1 (Kramnik) could be the best move! anyway lets containue logically Re1 prepares Bf1 so dont play Nf4 but f5! then Ng5 Nf6 Bf3!? you should look some van wely-shirov? game up van Wely had to sack a piece which gave him a draw after a tough fight but there is still a lot of analysis to do. The Nd2 variation isnt that great either black should play a5 check the variations with Bh6 which seems quite playable to me (and gallagher)

I myself play the KID, Volga, Grunfeld (against weak players) and the QGA

My advice analyse improvise and dont give up... chess is not an easy game so you shouldnt be looking for an easy life. My guess is that you started playing this line because of the counterplay attraction now breathe new life in your interest by creating new plans and make traps which are not easy to spot (Like a forced 10 move combination you thought up with fritz) Dont be afraid when you analyse with your PC just sac the bishop on h3 and finf out what happens and why is does(nt) work

Dont give this thing up!!!!!!!!
anaxagoras 158 ( +1 | -1 )
dedicated to 1d4 (1e4 is for the mob) Some rough remarks, since there's already enough great analysis here....

If you want some practical examples, check out my very own game history. I almost always open with 1d4: sometimes I win, sometimes I die like a dog.

The defenses I highly respect are:
Queen's gambit accepted
Slav and Semi-slav
Nimzo-Indian (so much so that I play the catalan instead: 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3 g3)
Queen's indian (again, I refuse it and play the catalan)

I don't have much respect for:
The benoni (if white knows the taimanov variation [f4 and Bb5+] you're as good as dust in a correspondance game)
The benko gambit (I have excellent success at declined variations)
Some people here have remarked that in the benoni black should wait for c5 until white plays Nf3, preventing f4. That is good advice provided that white plays 3 Nf3 and not the Catalan, so be prepared to face someone like me who refuses both the Nimzo indian and the Queen's indian.

The dutch defense is a strange bird. Do not, do not, DO NOT exchange your dark squared bishop for white's. Especially in the dutch stonewall, Bd6 can be a disastrous continuation for black because of white's Bf4. After the exchange, white's f4 pawn block's the f4-f5 advance of black's f-pawn, which is usually necessary to break through white's fianchetto'd kingside. Check out: board #1008457
Consequently, black is tragically weak on the dark squares and his position *stagnates*, his white-squared bishop being a little better than useless.
v_glorioso12 2 ( +1 | -1 )
something solid is the QID... just suggestion :-S
bogg 72 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 I used to play the Leningrad OTB and had very good, although I felt unjustified, success with it. My games seemd to be devided into two classes:
1) I would bury my opponent, quite enjoyable!
2) Just as my position was about to deteriorate past hope my opponent would make a 'defensive' move that allowed me to mate them.

I gave it up in favor of the NID/QID as I never seemed to be in control, a not very satisfying feeling for me.

As a French player I also have one 'advantage', I can answer 1.d4 with e6 and 2. c4 with b6 avoiding the Catalan and nearly always getting to great positions from the QID or the Dutch after 3. Nf3 f5.
White's lines against the English defense with c4 aren't very scary for Black IMHO.
joszef_palkovi 120 ( +1 | -1 )
What are you talking about? You seem to have all the awnsers and you seem to have done all great analysis, but let me tell you this: correspondence players are NOT better players then GM's and you are saying that all plans and ideas have been used.. what i ment to say is this: there are always hidden possiblilities and yes, accurate play is required in some systems but as i mentioned before chess is not an easy game! Let me givea remark about the ben-oni you say that the Taimanov system kills black immediately but as I see it Nfd7 still offers black chances and not only in OTB you know what annoyed me more? is that when I looked your rating up it said only 1805 and thrust me players like you always make statements about dust and kill but in reality there are always plans and defences. OK I play 1.e4 and 1.d4 (Tromp) I have respect for ALL the plans in a position let me give you an example. My friends and I analysed 1.e4 e5 Nf3 Qe7!? which seems quite ridiculous and you could say are you an 2000 player? no In fact the ones who analysed this with me are 2300 players and we came to the conclusion that white must lay very carefully to gain an advantage if any (we didnt find anything concrete yet) my point.. hidden possibilities
nectarboy 148 ( +1 | -1 )
thoughts on the "validity" of a given opening:- hi all! i am new to gameknot and have never posted before. i hope i don't annoy too many people if i have a go at saying something. i want to say that, as a fairly experienced player of all dark-squared fianchetto defences (attacks!?) against the move 1)d4, i am interested to read what joszef_palkovi and others have to say on the subect of the benoni defence. i recommend that, for further information on the benoni defence, you would do well to see John Watson's recent, well-acclaimed book (published by Gambit). he covers in detail all the lines - but interestingly he gives plenty of hope against the Taimanov system, indeed with ...Nfd7 (amongst other, more unusual ideas!?). it seems to me that this debate is a good example of where we can underestimate the richness of possibilities in the opening phase, perhaps because i) a reputable opening encyclopedia says or hints that a line is "bad" and ii) we notice the grandmasters are tending to avoid a line. let us remember that fashion plays a part here, coupled with good sense not to play so early into a critical position where a draw (as black) will often suffice to earn the requisite pay cheque at the higher levels. finally, i disagree that a player with a relatively low rating has necessarily less to contribute to a discussion of chess moves. even the best get it wrong sometimes! enter Mr Kasparov...

take care all - nectarboy
anaxagoras 185 ( +1 | -1 )
joszef_palkovi I guess I should apologize that my rating is not higher before I open my mouth. (rolls eyes) Ever hear of an Ad Hominem fallacy?

My negative opinion of the Benoni Taimanov (for black) is based on a couple of things: The first is my practical success with it as white. I play the line 8 Bb5+ Nfd7 a4... and frankly have no troubles against a comparably rated opponent. Second, you could say that I am theoretically biased against the Benoni because it gives up d5 to white, while black fails to occupy any of the primary center squares. Yes, the hypermodern movement in chess says center occupation isn't necessary, but at my own level (and my opponent's), it is. Thirdly, I *do* give deference to chess theoreticians, and the opinions I've read about black's chances in the taimanov haven't been encouraging, e.g. "Theoretically Black has no way to truly reach equality, so he must take refuge in complications." (DeFirmian) Overall I see the Benoni as an expert's defense because of its theoretical shortcomings. Yes, you're right that there are some sharp counterchances, but the irony is that the opening is super popular among amateurs like myself.

Overall, joszef-pakovi, your text is rather obscure and you try to make too many arguments in a single sentence, without really completing any of them. If you care to restate your viewpoint I would be happy to read it.

You should also keep in mind that I began my text with the qualifier: "Some rough remarks, since there's already enough great analysis here...." That is, I made it explicit that I was giving a list of opinions without objective justification. Why? Because the original poster wanted some suggestions about which defense to play against 1d4, and so I gave him some.

"I have respect for ALL the plans in a position"

You must be joking. Some plans are objectively inferior.
bogg 115 ( +1 | -1 )
to all anaxagoras makes a good point when calling the Benoni an expert's opening. I am not commenting on the statement in regard to the Benoni but in general. It is important to understand why the moves are played. I once read an article, I don't remember when or by whom, that was discussing some of Fischer's moves and the fact that when Fischer played certain moves they were given an exclamation but if the same move would have been played by someone else it would have been given a question mark! I think it is important to find openings that don't require to much more game than you have in you.

PS
John's book on the Benoni, like most everything he writes is a very good book. I haven't read the entire book to be able to qualify his statement but what he said about the Taimanov was that it was about as good as any of the other lines for Black. As the book was a Black repertoire book I would guess that he meant it was OK, and if I had read the whole book that may have been how I would have taken the statement, but it isn't what he said, unless I am getting forgetful in my old age.
spurtus 1 ( +1 | -1 )
e6... always!
joszef_palkovi 121 ( +1 | -1 )
hahaha People people,

I find it amusing that you think that giving reference to some GM is proof enough.. on the contrary late GM Miles had some funny comments on some positions (Scandinavian, Dragon, Alekhine) and more funny looking defences. This doenst mean that whatever DeFirmian says is true. Look he has devolloped a style and within that style (like you) he thinks that the benoni is just bad. I dont think you (obviously.. look at ur rating) know what the possibilities are in the position. And although I must agree that the stuff written in the books is good it doesnt cover everything... just think if it would chess is just solved all posibilities checked and evaluated. This isnt the case GM's miss things and dont write their own "secret ideas" in the books hence you could say that there should be something against the Taimanov Benoni.
One last word you're Taimanov "refutation" isnt forced as black can play "the scorpion benoni" (d4 Nf6 c4 c5 d5 e6 Nc3 exd5 cxd5 Bd6!?) also Ne7 systems and most important via the Nimzo defence (d4 Nf6 c4 e6 Nc3 c5) when a lot of whie players play Nf3 which bypasses the Taimanov setup;)